Okay, so in general, that's what I'd expect to work. Where is this formula being used? When you set the Manager field from the Form Load rules? Actually, probably not - since you'd use substring-after(Value[Name = "Manager"], "i:0#.f|membership|") if you were using this in your form load rules where you set the manager field... Is this in the latest form sample you posted? Is it simply leaving the manager field blank?